5 takeaways from the dueling Trump and Biden town halls

On Thursday, we got another in the same category, from NBC’s Savannah Guthrie.

In the approximately 20 minutes before the town hall was turned over to audience questions, Guthrie thoroughly grilled him. As Trump repeated false claims about the coronavirus outbreak and equivocated on things like QAnon and accepting the election results, Guthrie peppered him with sharp questions, follow-ups and fact checks.

When Trump defended his pandemic response by citing another study that showed 2 million people could have died of the coronavirus, Guthrie rightly noted that model predicted that only if the government did precisely zero mitigation.

When Trump responded to questions about his mask usage by setting up a false choice between wearing a mask and staying out of public altogether, Guthrie noted, “But there’s no one that says you can’t be out there, but it’s just about wearing masks and having — for example, your rallies.”

When Trump set up another false choice between his repeated downplaying of the coronavirus threat and telling the country “everybody’s going to die,” Guthrie asked, “Isn’t there a middle ground? You don’t have to mislead.” Trump responded: “No, no. No, there’s not a middle ground.”

When Trump declined to denounce QAnon because he said he didn’t know what it was about, Guthrie provided details about what it was about and invited him to do it, noting Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) has flatly denounced it as “nuts.” Trump instead offered that he liked that QAnon was against pedophilia.

When Guthrie pressed Trump on his retweets this week of a bizarre conspiracy theory about Osama bin Laden’s death, Trump explained by saying he was just passing along information. (“That was a retweet. I’ll put it out there. People can decide for themselves.”) Guthrie then provided the retort those tweets have long demanded: that he’s the president, not someone’s “crazy uncle” spouting off on Twitter, and that the information he promotes matters.

Like the Wallace and Swan interviews, Trump was clearly rattled by being so frequently and effectively questioned on his claims. Plenty complained that NBC News was providing him this forum opposite Biden’s town hall despite Trump having pulled out of a debate scheduled for the same night. Guthrie’s almost literal cross-examination (she is a lawyer) of him should allay any fears that this would amount to a free platform for the president.

Biden is leading Trump by a double-digit average in national polls and is making inroads with many of the demographics and in many of the states Trump previously won. As a result, the race seems in many ways like Biden’s to lose.

Biden didn’t make any glaring mistakes that would jeopardize his position, even with George Stephanopolous asking tough follow-ups on questions about his record on race, policing, fracking and more.

For the most part, Biden gave answers we’ve heard from him before (with one notable exception — we’ll get to that later). And he gave them in a way that perhaps would have been impossible for him to do during a debate like the one two weeks ago, where he was constantly interrupted by Trump. The town hall format has been kind to Biden in the past, and it was a hurdle he cleared easily Thursday.

In the span of less than a minute in the NBC News town hall, Trump sought to once and for all put to bed the denounce-white-supremacy issue that dogged him after the debate two weeks ago — and then almost immediately created another not-denouncing issue that seems likely to linger in the days to come.

Trump was clearly frustrated with being asked the white supremacy question. After declining at the debate two weeks ago to directly denounce it — and telling the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by,” which they took as encouragement — Trump and the White House spent 48 hours declining to more directly do so, arguing Trump’s previous answers should suffice. (Trump eventually relented during an interview with Sean Hannity two weeks ago; by that point, though, Trump’s coronavirus diagnosis overshadowed it.) Trump repeated Thursday that he denounces white supremacism.

But then, immediately, Guthrie asked Trump whether he would also denounce QAnon, which the U.S. government regards as a dangerous conspiracy theory. Trump declined. He maintained that he didn’t actually know what it was about, despite having been asked about it two months ago and saying the same thing.

“I do know they are very much against pedophilia,” Trump said. “They fight it very hard.”

The baseless conspiracy theory does indeed involve a supposed battle against pedophilia, but not one that is based in any reality. The movement has gained strength in recent months, with a recent poll showing Republicans being about evenly split on whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing. QAnon supporters and sympathizers have won GOP primaries, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is likely to win a congressional seat in Georgia. (Despite Greene having been initially denounced by Republicans, earlier Thursday her endorsement was hailed by Georgia GOP Sen. Kelly Loeffler’s campaign.)

Trump’s desire not to alienate people who hold fringe views — if not encourage such theories — is well established. But at a moment in the campaign in which he needs to wage a comeback, he seemingly signed himself up for another few days of why-won’t-you-denounce coverage about something that Americans overwhelmingly reject. Not ideal.

Biden, as he has before, said he is “not a fan” of packing the Supreme Court with more justices, something that has been floated by a growing number of Democrats following the death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. But he also has not committed to not doing it.

“It depends on how this turns out,” he said, referring to the Senate confirmation process for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett. Given the GOP’s control of the Senate, Barrett is on the fast track to being confirmed.

Biden has been cagey in his answers about this. He has said that if he gives an answer that will dominate the conversation, rather than the nomination itself.

But that has just prompted persistent questions from reporters to clarify where he stands. When he was asked Thursday to give a more definitive answer, he repeated that line, but he was a little more revealing about how open he is to it.

“It depends on how much they rush this,” he said, adding that if the nomination goes forward quickly, “I’m open to considering what happens from that point on.”

Biden also said he’ll take a firm position by Election Day.

Another question that has dogged Trump and the White House in recent days is when his last negative coronavirus test was before his positive test two weeks ago. The White House has declined to disclose it (among many other details), despite it being crucial in determining when the outbreak in the White House began. This has combined with questions about whether he actually complied with a requirement that he be tested before his Sept. 29 debate with Biden.

Trump offered little clarity on the point. After talking around the issue for a bit and saying he was frequently tested, Guthrie pressed Trump again, and he said he was “probably” tested the day of the debate. Trump added, “Possibly I did, possibly I didn’t.”

Trump was also asked whether he was ever diagnosed with pneumonia and, after initially not giving a direct answer, said he wasn’t.

Trump did expand on another issue the White House declined to address — his lung scans — saying the doctors “said the lungs are little bit different, a little bit — perhaps infected.”